Where Did Greg Stiemsma Go?
In the first game Greg Stiemsma played in as a Boston Celtic, he had six blocks in twenty minutes. Three games after that, he was in the starting lineup against the Washington Wizards, and had 13 points and 7 rebounds in twenty-one minutes. Stiemsma was quickly cultivating a label in Boston, one of a cult hero. The fans cheered wildly and uncontrollably every team Stiemsma entered the game, and became the center of a few featured pieces by America's finest sports blogging industries. His numbers were not exactly mind-boggling, but his backstory was strong enough for NBA fans to continuously root Stiemsma on -- think a lesser Jeremy Lin. He even learned last week that the Celtics would likely be employing his services for the rest of the season, a huge break for someone who has spent most of his professional life overseas or toiling in the D-League.
All these things are nice, but lately, Stiemsma has almost vanished from the Celtics primary rotation. Take a look:
Those are Stiemsma's numbers from the beginning of the season, and it's a pretty dramatic shift in playing time. Stiemsma is no longer the Celtics go-to big body off the bench -- that job is now reserved for Chris Wilcox and JaJaun Johnson. But Doc Rivers seems reluctant to even put Stiemsma in the game when the Celtics would otherwise appear desperate for size. As CSN's Rich Levine points out, during Sunday's Bulls game, Stiemsma seemed primed to enter into the beginning of the fourth quarter, as Garnett was tired and Johnson and Wilcox both had picked up four fouls. This didn't happen, and Wilcox almost immediately fouled out.
It doesn't make sense for Doc to be so reluctant with Stiemsma at first glance. His broad statistics -- 1.5 PPG, 2.0 RPG, 1.0 BPG -- obviously aren't insane, but they aren't worthless given his average of 7.8 minutes per game, a number that is misleading and should be lower if not for a few twenty minute outliers earlier in the year. He even has a PER of 13.9, which again isn't anything extraordinary, but it's good enough for Stiemsma to be considered a rotational player.
The problem with Stiemsma shows up in the more advanced metrics. When Stiemsma is playing, the Celtics offensive/defensive efficiency goes 90.9/101.2, as compared to 101.2/95.3 when he's not in the game. That means the Celtics are worse off offensively and defensively when Stiemsma is in the game, according to that statistic which measures scoring per 100 possessions. If that doesn't convince you, the Celtics are -45 with Stiemsma, +138 without. If that doesn't convince you, their Pythagorean Record is 14.9-67.1 with Stiemsma, 57.3-24.7 without Stiemsma.
Those statistics are especially crazy when you consider that the Celtics are 7-9 when Stiemsma plays less than five minutes, but 8-3 when he plays more than five minutes. None of this makes sense to me either. The broad statistics seem to insinuate that Stiemsma deserves more playing time, but the advanced statistics claim that whatever success the Celtics have with Stiemsma, they are doing in spite of him. Doc Rivers seems to think Stiemsma's recent demotion to the end of the bench stems from this:
"Really, it's speed wise, and I think he actually has the speed, it’s just technique -- especially in pick-and-roll coverage. He pretty much stands straight up and it’s amazing how quickly the league scout you. He comes in and they are running pick-and-roll, and they know that. But he’ll get it."
If Stiemsma's technique improves, do all those numbers change? I'm not positive, but I would have to think some difference would be made. If he can become an asset rather than a liability, and make the necessary adjustments within his game, maybe he could steal minutes back from Wilcox and Johnson. But as for now, it appears that Stiemsma has earned his damnation to the end of the pine -- something that seemed inconceivable at the beginning of the season.
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Johnson has more upside and is more athletic
I’d rather see him play, to be honest.
they play different positions
though they do compete slightly for minutes if you think in terms of KG sliding between the 4 & 5.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
He is an NBDL-caliber player who can block shots
So far he has not shown the ability to guard anyone one-on-one. He blocks shots. That’s about it. So he is getting the minutes he deserves.
the steamer is not the second coming of bill russell but he seems better than the bunch of stiffs, eg mikki moore, the c’s have dragged in over the years. it’s hard to learn on the bench and there are not too many practices this year and we need height desperately. he is nowhere near a jeremy lin type but look at how mike d was letting lin rot on the bench. come on doc, give him a few minutes.
Johnson seems to be taking his minutes right now
But he could earn them back.
Think...
much less talent than that of a Jeremy Lin.
Ricky Williams retired....Cue up Bob Marley,
"Excuse me while I light my spliff"...
not true stiems is good player that still need time the reason his been pushed back wa cause wilcox
after his 6 block and wizaed game doc said he would be a option but did the opposite cut his min etc….
Doc clearly explains that it's technique, the technique that is lacking, and that they believe he will get it.
I actually think Doc is best with his young guys when he specifies “this is what you need to learn to do, but we expect you can learn to do it”—and then doesn’t give them big minutes until they get there.
It looks to me as if that was his approach with 3J as well.
Im asking the same thing
i think doc should give every bigs minutes. JJ , Wilcox, Stiems .. spread the minutes or put them on 2nd unit.
i think the strategy of doc is that , whoever is playing well, he’s going to get minutes.
if wilcox and JJ got in and plays for 3 quarters. there’s no point of putting stiems.
The guy got torched by Javale Mcgee, his low post defense is pretty bad. Don’t get me wrong the dude get block shots but he needs to put on some weight. He is also kind of raw at the offensive end. Wilcox and Jermaine Oneal are better options because they are more seasoned. JJ should get minutes because he was our first round pick, he needs to develop. Wilcox has been playing really well as of late, I love his energy and his ability to finish at the rim. The celtics also have used Bass at the 5 during stretches in these games. He is a much better offensive player then stiemsa and he is a better rebounder.
I think more than adding weight it is the technique of lowering his center of gravity and digging in.
He’s never going to be a Brandon Bass, but that doesn’t mean they don’t believe they can make something of him that is useful at the NBA level.
A big, serviceable, blocking backup center is a pretty good find, even if they have to invest in and wait on his growth through this year.
Agree. A lot of folks say that losing some of the weight he carried earlier in his career
is what has helped Stiemsma improve so much the last 2-3 years.
He’s still developing. I’m not worried that he hasn’t cracked that many minutes on the floor the last couple of weeks.
Wilcox coming back healthy and playing better and better on defense has probably been the main reason Greg’s minutes have declined.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Advanced metrics is not very useful for bench players with limited playing time, especially if they get a lot of garbage time. A 30-something lead that ends in a 20-point win or the other way around will skew the data. This will probably even out over time, but the sample for a guy like Stiemsma is just too small. I would rather evaluate on his mistakes outside of garbage time and see if he makes too many and is a liability.
The answer is so far “probably yes”. I believe that Doc is right about Stiemsma needing to learn the technique, because he has great speed and timing.
by European NBA fan on Feb 14, 2012 8:14 AM EST reply actions
This is very, very true.
When you break things down into the various 5-man units that Stiemsma has played with:
http://basketballvalue.com/player.php?year=2011-2012&id=949
You see that his overall ratings are dragged down by a ton of minutes with ‘all-bench’ squads. In fact I’d call several of them the ‘all-DEEP-bench’ squads. I.E., no starters at all.
But in the units where he has played with that include all or at least 3 starters, his numbers are all in the green and very solid.
Also, one should be very cautious about reading too much into his +/- ratings just yet – with so little time played. His numbers are sure to fluctuate wildly.
The numbers that Brendan posted up above and in the link I just posted here are from basketballvalue.com and only include 156.3 minutes of playing time for Stiemsma.
The basketball-reference.com data has Stiemsma down for 163 minutes of playing time. I have no idea where the additional 6.7 minutes came from, but THEIR ORtg/DRtg numbers are 108 & 88 - very, very different from the 91.0 & 106.33 that basketballvalue.com has (and obviously much more appealing).
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
steamer will be back
steamer will be back – I think we have something with him that we don’t want to showcase to other teams before trade dead line as danny probably doesn’t want to include him in a trade if he doesn’t have to.


































