my turn on rondo..
Pierce has 3,700. (13 yrs) Ray 4,ooo. (15 yrs) Chris Paul 4,400. (6 yrs) Westbrook 1,900. (3 yrs) Rose 1,700 (3 yrs) nash 9,500 (15 years) Cousy 6,900 (all time celtics leader.) keep reading..
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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every ones arguement of rondo is that he is hurting the team cause of his play is always up and down…
He has played in 4 games that he either doesnt have double digit points or double digit assists/rebounds. so its single digits in all three categories.
pierce 4.
ray 6.
kg 4.
TURNOVERS! have killed the team at times, and the ball is carried up and plays start thru rondo most of the time…
rondo 73.
pierce 72.
ray 44.
kg 51… kg is the only one to play in every game up til the past chicago game on sunday.
WELL ITS HIS ENERGY WE WANT/NEED! He is the only position that hasnt had another player that can play decent minutes to give him a rest. it seems like a very long list have tried, but none have stuck.
Pierce has had pietrus, posey, green..
Kg – bass, baby, Oneal..
Ray – TA, daniels.
Rondo has had bradley, nate, house, hudson, cassel, marbury, pruit, dooling and its not there faults but doc either doesnt trust them to run the offense or they just couldnt play pg at a high level anymore.
so rondo has always gotten a high level of MPG. (only Ray can say the same.) Even pierce has gotten more rest than Rondo. Rondo is around 38 mpg the past few seasons to pierces 34. And yes that is not much, but when rondo’s main job is to run the court every time he touches it, it can take a beating on his body.
Players around him
when the big rotation is O’neal, O’neal, Perk, KG, Baby, that is not a very fast team. Pierce cant keep up with rondo and he along with ray are better suited as the trailers on the break. meaning no big is clearing the lane for rondo to run.
perfect example was sunday – wilcox and johnson both had easy alley-oop dunks cause they were keeping up with rondo. Infact they were on back to back plays. and that is what makes rondo as good as he can be, RUNNING! (i feel like tommy, RUN RUN RUN RUN!)
his shooting percentage has always been low.
he is averaging a career high in shots this year at 11.2 per game. and shooting just under 50%
pierce has never averaged under less than 12.2 which was three years ago and he was at 47%.
i understand rondo has not taken the hardest shots in the world but he is still around a respectable %
this year Pierce is at 13 per game @ 41%
rondo has started to take the outside shot and is 11 shots per game at 49%
pierce takes more three point shots, obviously! but look at what lebron has started to do, he is passing on the 3 pointers and driving the lane. taking a foul and getting to the line. we dont want pierce to do that cause it kills his body over the course of the season, BUT we want rondo to do that. and rondo is A LOT SMALLER than both lebron and pierce. so that doesnt make sense to me.
HE PLAYS WITH HALL OF FAME teammates!!
Then why was it so hard for nate, house, hudson, cassel, marbury, pruit to get the numbers that can porduce wins. And a championship. And another finals appearance.
KGs shooting percentage in minnesota was never higher than .526… in boston never lower than .521. i understand that ray and pierce have something to do with that. but he also gets A TON of wide open shots playing with rondo.
in losses KG shoots 41% Pierce 38%
in wins KG shoots 57% pierce 43%
thats a BIG seperation.
in the last couple losses (every one has started talking more about trading rondo since)
vs LA kg was 6-23
ray 9-20
pierce 7-18
rondo 7-13
to be fair vs toronto
kg 6-9
ray 3-8
pierce 4-11
rondo 2-10
rondo was the only player to play 40+ minutes for both games. so the fatigue factor could have been a big reason for the off night.
my point of all this is.
finally.
Lets not be so quick to blame rondo for all of the bad games this year. Lets understand its a team still lead by kg, ray, pierce. Rondo is just the most important player. and he has never had a back up who can play for more than 4 minutes at a time.
my solution
HAS to come from DOC, not Danny.
Start rondo. Take him out with 4 min left in quarter #1. Playing Bradley until the 9 min mark of the 2nd quarter. That would be a 7 min game resting period. But at least 10 in real time.
Take him out at the 2 min point of the 3rd quarter. Bring him in at the 9 min mark of the 4th. That gives every over 13 mpg but more importantly gives rondo rest in between quarters to rest his body and regain focus. Rondo at 35 not 38 mpg would be a better fit. Keep 1 of either ray or pierce out there when rondo is not. If the second unit is playing aka dooling. Bradley. Pietrus. Wilcox. Bass use a cull court press or half court trap, speed up the other teams bench. Make the other starting pg play high minutes.
Also helps Bradley improve. Giving him end of a quarter time. And opening a quarter time.
Um. Could you please clarify your point here?
Is it that Rondo needs less minutes?
I think
Everybody here recons Rondo is good for the team its just that some people (like me) believe that fans at Celticsblog way overrate him. He is not a top 3 pg, not top 5 either. He’s at the tail end of the top 10. Top 10 is still very good in a league dense with talent at that spot. I think if Wall and Rubio keep improving and Lin’s epic run isn’t a fluke then sometime next season should see Rondo fall out of the top 10. I guess thats why we should see what we can get for him in a trade before his value drops.
Good serviceable center
His stats might be inflated a little because he’s playing with Nash but I think he’s averaging 14-10 which is good. He’s the kind of guy the Celtics could use….. have you been reading my other posts.
by AussieGreen on Feb 14, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
thoughts on gortat..
I like him, but wouldn’t sign him to a big lengthy contract. Nor would I think about giving up Rondo for him.
Look at every Big Man that has played in Phoenix with Nash: 1) Stoudemire became Stoudemire with the help of Nash. (Look at his stats now, same coach, different numbers) 2) Marion loved Nash and put up crazy numbers by running the floor. (Not the same with Dallas, even though they have Kidd, and maybe cause he’s older) 3) Frye, well look at his numbers is New York..lol and with Suns. 4)Shaq – not gona start with him. AND 5… GORTAT. Look at him in Orlando with Nelson and with Sun and Nash..
I guess Rondo and his passing game similar to Nash can work but don’t you want a dominant Center?? I would try and find someone else.
Before Carmelo got there, Amar'e was an MVP candidate.
by Celticsdude on Feb 14, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
prove it... no really
Where did he finish in the MVP race..
Found this article from google.. but from this Rondo, Pierce and KG all finished ahead of him.. is there anything you can find that proves me wrong??
I saw it last season too
Amare was putting up very good numbers and the Knicks where winning. Its not where he finished but there was talk about him being an MVP candadate on NBA.com before ME-lo came.
by AussieGreen on Feb 14, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
I don't have to prove anything
It just is what it is. If you watched a lot of NBA,you’d know, the guy was playing out of his mind before Carmelo got there.
Gortat was a reserve in Orlando laying behind Dwight Howard and he always complained about minutes
by Celticsdude on Feb 14, 2012 11:11 PM EST up reply actions
i agree..
he did complain about minutes.. i dont want someone complaining on my team.. look at Big Baby, complained and got his wish. Gortat, like AussieGreen said “good serviceable center” and that is it.. not a dominant center to build around.. HE IS A ROLL PLAYER!
Completely different situation.
Brandon Bass was complaining about minutes in Orlando too. Gortat is a legit starting center averaging a double double. You can’t fake rebounding.
maybe.. lol
I’m just not a big fan.. I guess in today’s game you can consider him as a starting Center but like i said earlier, not a piece to built around.. and if we do trade for him or sign him, Rondo must be here so he can put up the same numbers..
I found this cool tool in nba.com which does the +/- with each team. and point I was making earlier on who Nash makes everyone better.. especially Gortat. Nash is the key to everyone success in Phoenix. link at bottom
http://www.nba.com/statistics/plusminus/plusminus_sort.jsp?pcomb=2&season=22011&split=9&team=Suns
you could play rondo for 32 minutes per game...
8 minutes per quarter…but if he doesn’t bring 100% EFFORT, EVERY game, then we are going to see a loss to the Lakers, at home, on national TV, against our most hated rival…when was the last time you saw rose, d.will,westbrook, Nash, etc… NOT get a single free throw, especially with the game on the line… go look it up…NEVER!!! It is inconceivable that the Rondo that alot of people consider one of the top 3 PG in the league could somehow,NOT GENERATE a single trip to the line…did anyone watch the Knicks game vs the raptors tonight??? Lin was not having a good game but he kept giving it his all, 100%, and the Knicks won, Rondo posted a state line of 5 pts,7ast,5 to, against the same team that Lin posted 27 pts,11 ast,8to because he gave 100%!!!!! EFFORT+SKILLS=results, usually in the win column….
What did amare get?
…just curious..
So you think Lin is going to keep this pace all year, all career? Wow. Ok. So I’m going to start expecting rondo to average a triple double in the play offs. If not I’m going to say we trade him to Detroit for Ben Wallace. Cause he tries! And always gives a 110%
Ben Wallsce is just what we need!!
Just kidding, but Lin doesn’t have to score 20 and 10 on that team every night. They have Carmelo and Amar’e. Listen, if we had those, I wouldn’t complain aout Rondo. But people want to rebuild around Rondo. Nonsense. You don’t rebuild around Rondo just like you don’t rebuild around Lin.
by Celticsdude on Feb 14, 2012 11:03 PM EST up reply actions
that is not the point...
Pun intended, no one experts Lin to generate these types of numbers over the course of the season…repeat no one does, BUT he plays his heart out,100% EVERY game, I only wish that I could say the same for rrondo…
by greensince72 on Feb 14, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
Jeremy Lin's buzzer beater
Sadly, our PG can’t do that with the game on the line. Sigh.
YES HE CAN. lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dg9bRslxu18
not a game winner, but you said buzzer beater.
Haha. I’m enjoying this Lin take off… did anyone happen to see the Minnesota game they started knocking him around, putting players in front of him as he drives. I did see Toronto do the same. That offense is built to allow PGs to thrive, to run, pick and roll/pop/drive, a 2 man game… The celtics offense is designed to share the ball. 5 man offense.. while we are on it. Minnesota, LA, who else have they played… Toronto… they have all been known as defense first teams. New York/d’antoni has never been known to have pg first offenses. “how did rondo do vs those teams”… ok let’s look at the career of rondo vs Toronto. Minnesota. LA..
Yes, let's start with last week's games against Toronto and LA
(I know you said career)
by Celticsdude on Feb 14, 2012 11:13 PM EST up reply actions
at least lin is not scared to drive the lane and get to the line to shoot free throws...
When Lin played the Lakers the other night, you did NOT see the Lakers sagging off Lin, BEGGING him to shoot, AND Lin wasn’t scared to drive into the paint and go to the line to shoot free throws.
by greensince72 on Feb 14, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
Because Lin
like every other starting point guard in the league can shoot free throws
by AussieGreen on Feb 14, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
No I'm not
Their completely different players. All I’m saying is Rondo can’t shoot.
nobody is comparing lin to rondo, except maybe you...
We are comparing Lin’s effort vs rondo’s effort…
So if kg goes 10-23 ray 11-20 all this would not matter, rondo would have had over 10 assists. 2 steals. Over 10 points.
he still would not have ANY attempted free throws...
You can’t get points off of free throws if you don’t drive the lane in an EFFORT to create a free throw opportunity…
by greensince72 on Feb 15, 2012 9:03 AM EST up reply actions
It’s hard for me to question the effort of a player who played with a dislocated elbow…when he was trying to guard a bigger player.
you are selectively choosing specific games to explain effort...
If you just chose specific games, then you could make the point that Rondo is the greatest player since Michael Jordan, if you choose to base your thesis on how many triple doubles he has gotten, in the reg. Season vs playoffs, you could…but a season is based on 82 games, well, this year it is 66. Here is a state for you to consider, Rondo ,during clutch time, (less than 5 min. Left in the fourth qtr, overtime, less than 5 pt difference in the game), his effective shooting percentage for all two point shots attempted in crunch time was .343%, he assisted on 25% of possessions during clutch time, he averaged 1FT, scored 0.6 pts per 48, draw foul @ 5.4% of possessions, he was ranked 196th in the league in overall performance in crunch time…take off the green shades… basketball games are 48 minutes, with the last 5 usually being the most important…Rondo IS NOT a TOP 3 PG…
by greensince72 on Feb 15, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
that should also have said that that was for the 2010-2011 season...
The same season you chose to reference the elbow game…
by greensince72 on Feb 15, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
Kobe has missed 13 game winning shots, there now I have slanted facts.
What’s rondos job on this team, to take 300k shots a game or to distribute the ball to players like Allen, pierce and kg? Why would you want rondo shooting with the game on the line when ray and pierce are on the team? You focus on what his job isn’t. His job is to run. Pass. Keep everyone involved and happy.
How many times have we heard “i don’t get enough shots” over the last 4 years? Maybe its part the big 3 are smart enough to not complain maybe its that rondo will give up his shot for them.
And now that its his time to shoot he is struggling. He shot well before he got hurt this year. Than he became a crash test dummy hurt his wrist and is struggling to get back that early season confidence.
Like you said its a season not a particular stretch of games.
what's your point...
Kobe may have missed 13 game winning shots?at least he attempted a shot.
Rondo takes 0.6 shot attempts in crunch time, averages 1 fta in crunch time, hmmm, maybe doc rivers, his coaching staff and his team mates understand something you don’t want to acknowledge, HE’S NOT a clutch performer?
by greensince72 on Feb 15, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Please stop ranking him, I’ve never ranked players. I think this player is not a top 100 player….who cares if he is top 3 top 300. Can he produce wins. Can he keep players involved. Do his teammates respect him, listen to the plays he calls? Yes they do.
Marbury, nash were great score first pg with talented bigs. They dont have a ring. Kevin Johnson had Barkley. Starks wad a good 3 point shooter he had ewing. Reggie miller was a top tier shooter. Stockton had Malone and no rings. Just cause you have hall of fame talent players and good shooters does not mean you will win a championship. There is still luck involved. Still have to execute the plays. Good coaching. Good depth. Rondo is not the reason they have a record around 500.
no you're right...
But Rondo is responsible for not getting to the line during crunch time…
by greensince72 on Feb 15, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
scrubs like...
Dooling, fisher, bibby,chalmers, farmar ALL rank AHEAD of Rondo…
by greensince72 on Feb 15, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
I like how you mentioned
All the great shooters that didn’t get a ring but neglected to mention all the great shooters that did get a ring.
put these in order
The celtics struggles this year are because….
A. Players were out of shape, than injuries.
B. Age.
C. So many new faces learning a complicated system.
D. Execution. To many turn overs. Players out of position.
E. We don’t have J. Lin
F. Rondo

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