3 Trades to Expediate the Rebuilding
3 Facts must be accepted:
1) Celtics are not a contending team anymore
2) Dwight Howard is not going to sign with the celtics.
3) Celtics are a championship organization and that will always be the long term goal, which is not the case for some teams who are just happy to make the playoffs.
Celtics are looking at a long and painful rebuilding process to get back to the championship level. they have a fringe all star in rondo, who has unique skills along with serious flaws, they have bird rights to jeff green, a young former top 5 pick who somewhat underachieved and has a heart issue, they have fringe young talent in bradley, johnson and moore, none of whom will ever be a star or all star almost definitiely.. they have 3 hall of famers toward the end of their career, two of whom are expiring contracts, the other is the youngest, and an all star this year and has 2 years left on his deal at big dollars, they have other expriing deals (JO, Dooling) and a couple of role players, bass, pietrus, wilcox.
It is my personal opinion that a championship team requires a top 5, or at worst top 10 player in the game. I am 33 and the only year that I can think of where this did not occur was the 2004 pistons. that group had either all star or close to all star level players at every starting position though.. Opinions on this board will be mixed on where rondo fits in for the nba's current player hierarchy, but I dont think there should be any doubt that he is not a top five player, and never will be.. he is prob not really top 10, and more realistically in that 15-20 range.. guys who are always borderline all star players, never the starter..
While I like rondo as a player, I feel that a team witih him as the best player will never be a true title contender..He is however, good enough that he will keep us competitive for the playoffs, the nba's definition of purgatory, the former washington bullets.. thus, I believe it would be best to not have the rebuilding centered around rondo.. these are the 3 trades I would suggest to expediate the rebulding process.
1) Trade Rondo and the Clippers Pick to Toronto for Barbosa (expiring) and Their First Round Pick.. Celtics do this to get a lottery pick, and have additoinal cap room going forward. Toronto has been out of the playoffs forever, they need a point guard.. They then have rondo, derozen, bargiani, and that foreign center (forget his name) they drafted in the lottery last year as their core and should be fighting for a playoff spot next year..they still get a pick toward the end of the first round as well..
2) After March 1st, Trade J Oneal, Dooling, Daniels to New Jersey for Farmer, Petro, and Morrow. The trade also gives the option for the cetlics to swap first round picks with the nets (which they will almost certainly exercise). This almost assues the celtics of a second lottery pick in this year's draft. They don't take back any salary beyond next year. New Jersey does this to clear 11 million off their cap for next year, giving them the ability to sign howard, williams, and brooke lopez.
3) This one will hurt, but three team trade between the Celtics, Lakers, and Timberwolves:
Pierce goes to the Lakers
Gasol goes to the Timberwolves
Derrick Williams and filler comes back to the celtics (perhaps martell webster and brad miller)
Celtics then have acquired the following assets from the trades: Derrick Williams (second pick last year) and two lottey picks this year, which should both be in the top ten and with any lottery luck could be even higher....they have not taken on any salary beyond the 2012-2013 season.. next year they will be in the lottery as well.. they can bring back jeff green.. They should hopefully be an attractive FA destination in the summer of 2013 with the assets that they have acquired and doc still as coach..
Thoughts??
Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.
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I think your idea is n the right track
If we trade Rondo for a first rounder, it’d be better to do it in the offseason and make sure that pick is Top 5. I like Derrick Williams. I did not understand the trade with the Nets, though.
Point is, Rondo is clearly the guy we need to trade to rebuild. He’s not a franchise player, not top 15-20 in the NBA and Dwight Howard doesn’t want to play with him. Face it.
laker trade....
I have a post that I completed this morning that addresses this same scenario… good minds think alike…
I like ideas 1 and 3
Both are realistic and would indeed help the Celtics. The 2nd one is a little too painful for me. Those Nets contracts are exactly the type of mid level contracts that strangle teams. I know there will still be a lot of cap room even after taking them on, but it just doesn’t seem worth it. Also, I don’t think the Nets will give up a lottery pick just to get rid of those guys, as they already have max cap room and probably wouldn’t be trying to sign both Lopez and Dwight.
here are the basics of that post...
Pierce, ridnour to Lakers, gasol to Minn,d.Williams,pekovic,Beasley to Celtics…
Allen to denver, c.brewer,r.Fernandez,k.koufus to Celtics…
Rondo to golden state for m.ellis Celtics would send 1sts to Denver, Minn.Lakers 1st to minn
Scenario #2
Pierce to golden state for m. Ellis, d.wright
Rondo, beasley to Lakers, gasol to Minn. Pekovic, d.Williams, filler to celtics
Allen deal the same, Boston sends 1st to min, den. Lake sends first to celtics
I think you're asking for too much in some cases
1) Minnesota seems to be giving up too much for Gasol. Williams, Beasley, Pekovic, and Ridnour? Too much, especially because pekovic is playing really well right now (and i can’t believe I just said that). I can see them giving up either Williams or Beasley but not both.
2) Denver is also giving up too much for Allen. One of the things that has made them so especial is their depth.
3) Rondo to Golden State for Ellis is interesting but I don’t know if they want to play to PGs at the same time. It would make more sense for them to send us Stephen Curry if they want Rondo.
Scenario #2
1) Again, the Warriors giving up too much for an old guy. Wright might not be a star but he’s having a solid year for them.
2.- This one is interesting. Take Beasley out of it (again, timberwolves giving up too much) and it might make sense for everybody. I love Derrick Williams and Pekovic is having a solid year for the Timberwolves. Still, though, there might be better options for Rondo.
you gotta make the numbers work.....you got to find a team that needs what you offer them...
1- Minn gets gasol 18.7 m contract, they don’t need ridnour, he’s not their future a backup PG, barea is, they don’t want need Beasley, they got him for peanuts, they get their center covered in gasol, plus they get picks, veteran leadership…
2- Denver needs cap space bad, they have to sign d. Gallinari,UFA, w. Chandler, UFA, extend ty Lawson, Timothy mosgov, this would give them about 16m, 24m, if they let a. Miller go, they have no investment in c.brewer, r.Fernandez, they sent Dallas a 2nd, getting a first is actually a good return on their investment. This young team greatly benefits from r. Allen’s leadership.
3- trading Rondo to golden state would allow them to shop s.curry for better pieces to fill their holes, ie.,a CENTER to take biedrins spot, they could send curry, Klay Thompson, several picks, etc…in their quest to dhoward, if they miss, they still got a primo PG, picks to shop, plus trading m.Ellis allows Klay thompson to get playing time…
If pierce goes to state then they have vet. Hof to ship out to in d.Howard deal, m.Ellis, etc..
by greensince72 on Feb 20, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
do you really think that with the new cba...
That teams like Denver, minnesota, golden state are going to entertain paying dollar for dollar when they get past a certain point on the cap, no, they are going to build around a core like love, rubio, gasol and fill in around, Denver will have gallinari, Lawson, nene, chandler, golden state???who knows what their plan is other than build maybe Rondo, dh12, kthompson, d.lee, b.rush… sometimes teams make trades based on other considerations….
by greensince72 on Feb 20, 2012 7:53 PM EST up reply actions
part of the reason teams is avoid having to...
Plan around the future RF a, when they have a plan going forward. C.Brewer,R. Fernandez cost Denver nothing but a 2nd to Dallas, thrown in kkoufus that another 8-10 million added to their payroll…
Minn needs to match salaries, ridnour is not in their future plans, m.Beasley isn’t either plus Beasley is a 8.3m cap hold fo next year with his expiring 6.3m, after gasol, they need a
SG…
by greensince72 on Feb 20, 2012 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
do you think that minny is going 13 m over the cap to get gasol??
2013-2014 gasol would cost them about 24m extra luxury taxes….
by greensince72 on Feb 20, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure if the Lakers would trade Gasol for pierce. but they would do this (sorry, the trade machine is not loading it):
Celtics receive: Derrick Williams, Wesley johnson, Brad Miller, Walton, Korver, Matt Barnes, CJ Watson (before you start whining about contracts, please notice Miller, Walton, Korver and watson’s contracts expire in 2013. That’s why I picked those players).
Lakers get: KG, Pierce
Timberwolves get: gasol
Bulls get: Ray Allen
I was reading on t-wolves board (on realgm) and their fans seem to think that D-Will is definite trade bait since he is a 4 and behind Love.. but they are high on Pekovic right now,and seem desperate for a wing: This three teamer might also work, excluding the lakers,
Indiana/Bos/Minn:
Boston Trades Pierce and Allen to Indiana (well below the cap)
Indiana Trades Granger to Minnesota
Minnesota trades D-Will and filler to the celts (prob miller and then wes. johnson or webster).
@soloking
Was that with me? If it was then, yes, that’s as much as you’re going to get. People need to stop thinking we can get a star for two or three old guys. Derrick Williams is a beast and has great potential and would fit perfectly with Rondo. In my deal I’m also adding other pieces like Wesley Johnson, Miller, Korver and Watson (a few or these contracts expire in 2013). Remember we also have Jeff Green and our (lottery) first rounder.
Lineup next year with my trade:
PG: Rondo/Watson
SG: Johnson/Bradley/Korver
SF: Green/Korver
PF:Williams/JJJ
C: ?
And our first rounder who could end up being Jeremy Lamb or Austin Rivers or a big
that's why i sent RAllen to denver....
They don’t need what they are giving up, we do…including a center k. Koufus to hold down the post …till something better comes along…
by greensince72 on Feb 20, 2012 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
what would be awesome for us to get
is josh smith.
honestly we should trade more than hes worth to get him. as long as we can hold onto rondo the 4 young guys and our first round pick i think we come out on top. something like bass,allen and the clippers pick for smith
the reason why we shouldnt mind giving up too much is because we know hes friends with both rondo and dwight. if he can bring in dwight that would be awesome for us. so next year our lineup would be rondo,2,green,smith,howard. if dwight wont come without williams then we trade oneal and rondo for williams and we still try for green but we would have less cap room. we should also trade pierce for a good young sg even if he isnt as good as pierce because then we are even more attractive. so a guy like oj mayo or james harden would be good to get or a high draft pick. all this is to set up a team dwight can come in and have good chemistry, want to be there and will be set up to win now and in the future. basically we should do whatever it takes to get dwight and even if we dont get him we just delay rebuilding a year
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 20, 2012 3:22 PM EST reply actions
Why would the Hawks trade Josh Smith?
And why would they trade him for a bunch of old guys?
Forget about Dwight.
dwight is a cant miss prospect
no matter where he goes they will automatically be much better. we should go all out on him and if we cant get him then move on from there but no matter what go all out for him as option 1. and josh smith would be traded if they got a good package or if they thought he wasnt going to resign after next season
another option is to go after bynum i think he is tired of being in trade talks and wants to go to a team that will want him too. rose wants pau we want bynum and so i think boozer rondo bass korver and picks is a pretty good package for those two players
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 20, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
Dwight doesn't want to play here
I hope he gets traded this week so that we can move on. I don’t understand the Bynum trade.
bynum
i think bynum will be traded this season and i think that he would be an amazing building block if we could get him. we an offer rondo bass and picks but beyond that i dont think we have much to offer so it might be difficult.
i threw the bulls thing in there because i think the lakers could assemble a really good team by trading both gasol and bynum
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 20, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
they seem to want rondo for pau but we want bynum so by chicago getting pau who rose wants and us getting bynum they still get two stars in return in boozer and rondo plus more players to build their team around (guys like bass)
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 20, 2012 5:38 PM EST up reply actions
dwight how"flawed"ward ain't coming here...
He doesn’t want to be here and I for one am glad… as much as I dislike varejo and noah, I would rather have either one of them than Howard, at least they bring it every night…
by greensince72 on Feb 20, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
who knows im just saying go after him
by JuJuan some moore on Feb 20, 2012 5:34 PM EST up reply actions
I like
trade that sends Pierce to Minny— they could use wings (throw in Pietrus) if we could get Williams and Wesley Johnson and even throw in Milicic (who can do some good things— of course this in comparison with O’neal/Stiemsma). Wesley Johnsonon (6’7 i think) is a bigger SG, and coupled with Green or Webster (6’9) we would have 4 of 5 guys over 6’7 (to help defend wade, etc.) plus athletic. Find some way (as I have posted ad nauseum) to get Mosgov (pekovic too good now) or Kanter/Favors and we would be OK.
Realistic Trades
Rondo and Allen are likely the only guys that have trade value, and who knows how much. Ray only to contender neeeding a shooter
Allen to Clips for Mo Williams & Eric Bledsoe
Rondo & Dooling for Monta Ellis & Jeremy Tyler
Wilcox, O neal Tyler
Garnett, JJ
Piece
Ellis
Williams
Draft
Quincy Miller SF
Kendall Marshall PG
Adonis Thomas, Demetrius Walker, or Drew Gordon
This is pretty realistic
Not sure if we can get Mo, though. But I’m a Monta Ellis fan and I like Bledsoe.
rAllen to denver...
Denver would need to send back at least 7.5 million to make trade work, k.koufus, c. Brewer, r. Fernandez, would equal 7.4 which would make it work for Denver…yes, I like Rondo, dooling for Ellis, Tyler…
Well, I don't think Doc would stay for a few years of rebuilding
but I could be wrong. I also wouldn’t make 1. unless we know what Toronto’s pick is.
these trades?
while they are all lovely ideas…there is one problem…none of these are going to happen..you think ainge reads this board and he’s gonna start taking ideas from you guys? what is it that you guys do that you have so much time to be able to analyze minnesotas and denvers projected salary cap for the next two seasons…i wish i had that much time to dick off..just because these things work in the trade machine doesnt mean they are going to happen…Look…Dannys had this plan in place for years now..thats why these contracts are going off the books this year..Hes going after dwill (not derrick) and howard..believe me id like to have either one but i dont see it happening..He is not gonna make any moves before the end of the season that jeopordize the cap space..you can read this after the deadline and see that im right..

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