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Big 4 + One

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At this mid point I thought it would be interesting to look at how the core of this team has been doing. Because of injuries, suspensions and personal family-matter absences, the roster of the C's has been somewhat in flux. Because of that, it can be difficult at times to see through the noise and see how the heart of the team is doing.

Why is this important? Because in the odd chance that the team DOES make it to the playoffs, at that point, nothing becomes more important than how your top 5-man unit performs. Rotations shrink. Coaches go to 8 man units to get through entire games and the lion's share of minutes will go to the best 5-man unit. All concerns about how good your bench is, how to rest your starters, developing youngsters for the future - all that stuff goes right out the window. You win in the playoffs with your best unit.

With the Celtics, Danny famously gambled last year that he could put any good big man in the post behind the "Big 4" of Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce, Ray Allen and Rajon Rondo and that they would still be a dominant unit. That gamble fell short behind injuries to not only the big men he planned to replace Perk with, but also to Rondo.

Many feel that the core "Big 4" is now past it's window and that they can no longer get the job done. Most of the complaints posted on this board are criticisms of the starters. KG is too old and slow and has no hops. Pierce has no legs. Ray can't get open off screens anymore. Both Paul and Ray are accused of turning the ball over like a greased bowling ball. Rondo is inconsistent, moody, and a mis-matched gazelle on a unit of beached manatees. And so on.

If all that is true, then they must suck, right? Well, I thought it worthwhile to take a look at how the "Big 4" is performing in isolation from the rest of the Celtics. Numbers after the jump.

Star-divide

In a recent FanPost, drza44 posted a very interesting article that illuminated the simple stark difference in how this team performs with both KG & Pierce playing (15-10) versus how they perform with one or both missing (0-6). Anybody who has been paying attention to the last week should be painfully aware of how poorly we have played in the games without KG. If nothing else, these facts suggests that perhaps the members of the Big 4 are not completely worthless yet.

In particular the idea of needing BOTH KG and PP together - either missing was killer - reminded me that this team is all about synergy. I decided to use data from http://www.basketballvalue.com to see how the Big 4 are playing when they are on the floor together this season. Here is their data with the various 5th men they have been combined with:

unit minutes Poss For Poss Opp Pts For Pts Opp Off Rtg Def Rtg Overall Rtg
Big 4 + O'Neal, Jermaine 177.6 327 326 325 298 99.39 91.41 7.98
Big 4 + Wilcox, Chris 16.38 31 30 39 30 125.81 100.00 25.81
Big 4 + Stiemsma, Greg 15.15 32 31 40 33 125.00 106.45 18.55
Big 4 + Johnson, Jajuan 6.5 11 13 14 12 127.27 92.31 34.97
Big 4 + Bass, Brandon 59.8 108 105 110 124 101.85 118.10 -16.24









Big 4 + anyone 275.43 509 505 528 497 103.73 98.42 5.32









Big 4 + (JO,CW,GS,JJ) 215.63 401 400 418 373 104.24 93.25 10.99









Big 4 + (CW,GS,JJ) 38.03 74 74 93 75 125.68 101.35 24.32

Some things to observe in this. First and foremost - Jermaine O'Neal gets a bad rap. That 91.41 DefRtg that the starters have posted with him is wicked stingy. And while the 99.39 ORtg is not great, the net rating of almost +8 is solid. Unfortunately, since Jermaine cannot be counted on to give you more than about 20 minutes (and that's assuming his latest injury isn't lasting) what may be even more important is how the Big 4 have been doing with the OTHER big men.

As you can see from the above, the results are mixed. Let's talk about Brandon Bass. On one hand, as exciting as it has been to have his dependable scoring off the bench - he has not really produced great results when inserted with the Big 4. The reasons are not too hard to figure. When he is added, KG has to go to the 5 and play in the post on defense because Bass is too short to defend 7 foot centers. This is bad. KG is the premier high paint big man defender of this last decade - maybe one of the best all time - and making him stay down low to guard a 5 is a misuse of his talents. KG is not a bad big man defender, but his true value is in using his horizontal game to deny passing lanes and access to the paint. The other effect of this is that when you put Bass on the floor with the Big 4, that means going against the best unit of the other team. And many other teams starting units feature PFs that are 6' 10" or taller. Basically, Bass creates a big fat defensive problem for us and that is painfully obvious by that horrid 118.1 DRtg.

Note carefully that this does not mean Bass is not a great bench player for us. His overall rating for us is positive. When deployed with our bench units against the other teams' bench units, he has been great. But the way rotations work, when our Big 4 are on the floor you can predict that other coaches are also going to have their starters on the floor. And Bass is simply not tall enough to play defense against premier starting bigs. So he should not really be deployed with our starters unless we know the match ups favor him.

Because the individual minutes for each are so small, I don't think we can say anything definitive about how well the Big 4 perform with Chris Wilcox or Greg Stiemsma or JaJuan Johnson individually. However, collectively, the trend is pretty clear - so long as the extra big man has legitimate length - and is not creating a huge hole in our defense - they are doing pretty damn well! Their collective 101.35 DRtg, while nowhere near the shut-down defense that we've been getting with JO at the 5, is still very, very good. And conversely their superior athleticism is resulting in much, much better offensive output. The sample size collectively is still small at just 38 minutes, so I don't want to claim that the net +24.32 is sustainable. But it is a very promising sign that the Big 4, as a unit, are not yet done.

To give you some perspective on these numbers, in 2007-2008, this Big 4 posted a +19.47 net rating with Perk and +11.28 as a team overall. That was the highest net rating the Celtics historically have ever posted, slightly better than even the '86 team. Most Celtics teams that have made the final have had at least a +5 rating.

2010 was an interesting case that bears remark. Because of numerous injuries during the season, we went through long stretches without all of our Big 4 healthy and on the floor so our regular season overall team rating was not that impressive. But as many of us noted - the 5-man unit numbers were strong and bode well, if the team could just get healthy. Sure enough, the team that hit the playoffs was healthy and made an amazing run that came up just short.

So, all that sounds rosy and wonderful. The problem is - despite all that evidence that the 'Big 4' are (collectively) fine, the Celtics overall are currently stuck below .500 and looks decidedly mediocre. That is because this team is having serious problems generating offense when we don't have the Big 4 on the floor. Specifically, in units dominated by our bench guards and wings (AB, KD, EM, MP, MD & SP) our offense basically has sucked. Our defense from those units has been okay - but the offense has been atrocious. In several of our recent 'big games' our starters will have all posted positive +/- numbers (out playing the other team), but the bench will have given it all up, posting massively negative numbers.

I suspect some of the blame falls on Doc's shoulders (for not coming up with offensive schemes that 'Non-Big 4' personnel can execute) and some on those players for simply not executing well the things that they SHOULD be able to execute. That discussion is for elsewhere (feel free to offer ideas below).

Going forward into this second half, THIS - the offensive performance of our bench - has got to be our number one priority for improvement. Even if it becomes less important in the contracted rotations of the playoffs, the simple fact is that if we don't get better production there during the regular season, we may not MAKE it to the playoffs.

Be respectful and keep it clean. Thanks.

Comment 17 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Heres to hoping for a bigger sample of the big 4 + JJJ

by Whetzell on Feb 22, 2012 4:37 AM EST reply actions  

Start jajuan Johnson! Mostly kidding but pierce Johnson Garnett is a lot of wingspan out there but not a lot of bulk. What I got out of this is limp into the playoffs healthy even if that means not playing the big three enough to get the 5 seed and hope for a run like the spurs had

by JuJuan some moore on Feb 23, 2012 3:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I think JJJ is a terrific player, who could someday be a borderline all star, but at the moment Doc & DA seems to not have given up on this year yet. Bass, currently is a better option at PF because of his experience. I am all in favor of JJJ starting next year but even then Doc does not seem to trust players to play a lot of minutes until year three of their career. Powe and big baby getting minutes so quickly was just the celtics lacking options.

by christopher.landers1 on Mar 7, 2012 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Not much room for error

Big 4 MUST stay healthy, and the bench must somehow start performing a lot better. Basically, it comes down to what many said at the beginning of the season: this team only makes waves this year if everything works out perfectly. So far, that’s not happening (because it rarely ever happens at all), and sadly, there’s nothing to indicate it will in the 2nd half. But in the offseason it will be interesting to see who stays, who goes, who walks through that door.

by JR99 on Feb 22, 2012 6:55 AM EST reply actions  

Yep.

Exactly.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Feb 22, 2012 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Thanks!

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Feb 22, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

+1

mmmmm you must of been a A+ student in math since you like and are so effective offering so many numerical numbers and stats etc….lol

by fordescort on Feb 23, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice work. The numbers don't lie!

You’d have to think the shortened training camp would have something to do with the bench’s scoring struggles.

"Can't eat sushi in Utah, brother. Landlocked."

by IsItTheShoes on Feb 22, 2012 7:00 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

good post

I may be over-simplifying, but the numbers WITH Kg look good because he is the only starting big we have that can shoot on pick and pop plays, and PP can finish, and get to the line. We tend to rely onPP/ KG to bail us out at the end of shot clock. Also- as you stated in a previous post, our offense is not designed/fit for our subs… so naturally those players would not thrive in a situation that doesn’t suit them. Doc does have to let the 2nd unit loose a bit IMO—- they seem “shackled” and uncomfortable. What do we have to lose?

This offensive efficiency stat that may be misleading though. I would like to compare the efficiency of the starters in the last 5 minutes of games— and compare that to the rest of the minutes. I’m guessing it might be well below “fine”.

As suggested before— I think if we allow for Bradley/moore/Rondo/PP to push and attack early— and use more open post sets, we could be more effective. Watch tonight’s game…. see how many sets make the middle (elbow) clogged -thus stopping anyone from driving. I hope I see less of those sets.. IMO they hold us back, and don’t allow for us getting to the line or get 2nd chance points either.

by P stoff on Feb 22, 2012 7:08 PM EST reply actions  

late game efficiency

that’s an interesting question to bring up.

One of the things Doc has tended to do in late-game is to go ‘small’, replacing his center with a PF/SF. Thus a lot of the minutes for the ‘Big 4 + Bass’ configuration have been at the end of games.

And that, indeed, has struggled both offensively and defensively.

If there is one thing I do not agree with Doc on, it is his almost nostalgic love affair with this “Posey configuration”. I would rather keep a true big on the floor behind KG as much as possible because it allows KG to be the shut-down defender that he is in the high paint and I don’t see any reason to change from that just because it is the last minutes of a game.

I know that a big reason for the evolution of that was Perk’s poor FT shooting – it did make him a liability late in games. But JO, GS & JJ all shoot FTs fairly well and CW is at least average at it. So I would much rather see one of those guys on the floor with the Big 4 at the end of games rather than Bass or Pietrus.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.

by mmmmm on Feb 23, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Yup

This strategy actually made sense with Posey because he could space the floor with his three-point shooting and somewhat credibly guard PFs. Bass can’t do the former and Pietrus can’t do the latter.

by Ersatz on Feb 24, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think Doc wants to go small late in games. If he had an effective center, who he could trust in late game situations I doubt we would be seeing as much of the late game small ball. If the Celtics really want to try to win it all this year their #1 priority should be a true cente.

by christopher.landers1 on Mar 7, 2012 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Totally agree

even last night- though pietrus battles hard, JJJ could have gotten more minutes with P and RA.

by P stoff on Feb 23, 2012 2:25 PM EST reply actions  

I agree...

that some blame should falls on Doc for not coming up with better or more offensive schemes that Non Big 4 players can execute in order to help them get a better opportunity to generate better offense.

I think Doc does setup Bass and Pietrius on offense just fine, but he does not set up offensive opportunities for the rest of the bench players like Wilcox, Bradley, JJ, Moore and Steamer to help them get more comfortable on offense and to help the 2nd unit generate more offense.

I think also when any of the big 4 are on the court they tend to hog up the shots on offense and do not tend to look to get Wilcox, Bradley, JJ, Moore and Steamer more involved on the offensive end of the court which helps lead to the lack of offensive punch for the 2nd unit especially when the above players are on the court with any of the big 4.

This is especially true with Pierce and Ray I think who hardly ever like to pass the ball to any of the above players to help get them involved with the offense and prefer to take most shots on the offensive end of the court themselves when they share the floor with Wilcox, Bradley, JJ, Moore and Steamer.

I think this problem can easily be remedied by Doc allowing the above bench players to get more involved when on the offensive end of the court when they are on the floor with any of the big 3, but this is easier said then done with Doc since he likes to not just play the big 3 as much as possible but to also have the offense go through them as much as possible also.

Just my 2 cents.

by fordescort on Feb 23, 2012 10:12 PM EST reply actions  

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