Rajon Rondo: High Maintenance NBA Superstar
The most shocking thing that happened Sunday during Rondo's virtuoso performance, for me at least, was during one of those pre-recorded midgame interviews with Doc Rivers. The interview immediately began with Doc being questioned about Rondo's job stability and rumors of his petulance, as it is perhaps the biggest story in the NBA as the trade deadline nears. "Rondo is the smartest player I've ever coached," Rivers said "Which is both a good and a bad thing".
The way Rivers is describing Rondo makes the latter sound like an eccentric genius, a la Rick Nash or Nikola Tesla, which of course is a simultaneously flattering and damning description. Much has been made about Rondo's personality, which has sparked the rumors that the Celtics are looking to trade him. He's been called "stubborn and high maintenance", a truly curious description of an NBA superstar. Because in reality, aren't they all?
The NBA, more than any other league, is full of athletes who are slightly left of whatever is considered the center (Shane Battier? George Mikan?). The number of players who have repeatedly shot themselves in the foot to the point that it is a miracle that they have any circulating blood there -- and still have jobs -- is staggering. The fact that Baron Davis is still employed by any NBA team is remarkable. DeShawn Stevenson is an egomaniac who is terrifying and I hope never reads this. DeMarcus Cousins was the first half temperamental MVP, and the Kings still employ his services.
Whether it is a dearth of talent in the NBA or what, teams still rely and depend on players who are headstrong and obdurate. That the Celtics are allegedly so offended by Rondo's personality leads me to believe that either they are exaggerating or as Bob Cousy put it, have found out Rondo is a serial killer on the side (then again, that wouldn't matter because you know, Kevin Garnett). Everyone in the NBA is somewhat off-kilter or somewhat rebellious. Rondo's prime offenses appear to be that he sees himself as the smartest player on the court, and that whatever he wants to do is the right choice. This is obviously an extremely arrogant thing to presume, but it is likely true. Through his play, Rondo has made it clear that he is the best player on the Celtics, and it isn't too far-fetched to assume that the things he says and wants are probably right most of the time.
His 17-18-20 brilliance Sunday proves this, and proves that when he feels like it, Rondo is possibly the most dazzling (I hate this adjective, because it makes it sound like I'm describing Mariah Carey, but I'm running out of adjectives) player in the NBA. As Bill Simmons tweeted, it was Rondo's "Don't **** TRADE ME!!!!" game, a game where Rondo seemed to make any discussion of a trade seem obsolete and totally ridiculous.
The problem with that theory is that Rondo's game only increases his trade value, as SI.com's Ian Thomsen points out (Dang it, Ian! I had this theory planned out since yesterday!). Teams are more likely to overlook Rondo's attitude issues if Rondo has the potential for games like the one he had on Sunday, and would offer more for Rondo's services if they believe his play overshadows any extraneous issues. Rondo's game, at first appearing to be a blessing for Celtics fans, could potentially bring forth the extinction of his services.
As NBA.com's David Aldridge notes, the apparent "dynamics" issue Rondo and his teammates allegedly have becomes irrelevant when you consider that most of the non-Rondo members of the team will be gone after this season, and if Rondo is moved to appease them it's ridiculous. It would be unjust if that's the justification for Rondo's trading, and wouldn't make any sense for a team that desperately needs to be looking toward to the future.
What appears to be the case with these Rondo rumors is that Ainge isn't conducting a firesale, and is subliminally letting the world know Rondo would be available if a sweetheart deal presents itself (thanks to CelticsBlog EIC Jeff Clark for that theory, exchanged over email). Any rumor of Rondo being "openly shopped" seems false at this point, and if Rondo was traded the Celtics would need some large in return. After Sunday's game, though, one would think teams would be more willing to give the heavy asking price.
I'm sure Rondo's personality issues are at least a part of the rumors of his tradability, as it has been a long-lying undertone in the modern day Celtics that his issues exist. There probably wasn't a specific incident that set these rumors off, but rather a build up of confrontations and disagreements. But again, which NBA player isn't suspect to outbursts or irrational behavior? The difference between Rondo and everyone else is that he has the talent to justify his irrational and sometimes cocky behavior.
Of course the X-factor in all this is general manager Danny Ainge, the last unpredictable man in professional basketball, a man who makes Metta World Peace's antics seem contrived. It will come down to what Ainge wants, and that usually is never what anyone is expecting.
Follow the author @brendohare
121 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Rondo doesn't even have to be the best player on a championship team
he’s not being paid like one. unless we’re getting Deron Williams or Dwight Howard (with the promise of an extension), we’re not getting a top option on a great team or maybe not even the second option
This.
People always whine that he’s not capable of being the best player on a championship team and my immediate thought is “well, its a great thing for us he’s not being paid like it.”
You just got Rondo'd
by RJ87 on Mar 5, 2012 11:14 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You make it sound like he makes 5 million per year or something
11 million a year, backloaded so he makes 13 million in 2014-2015. Yes he is a bargain when he plays like he did yesterday or even the past couple of games. When he isn’t motivated it’s not the worst contract ever, but it’s pretty bad. The 2 things you have to think about with Rondo, how will he play when he isn’t surrounded by the big 3 who are all good shooters and how motivated will he be when the team is rebuilding? I believe he can be the 3rd best player of a championship team but that is an engaged Rondo.
I do admit the big 3 are slow and old for his style
But what if the Celtics get 2 or 3 young guys who are also not good at shooting, they will be able to get Rondo more assists on the break but will mess up spacing even more.
$13m in the final year is the "worst contract ever"? I'd like to think Rashard Lewis' $21m per contract would take those honors.
You need more than one good player to seriously compete in this league, I don’t see why people don’t get that. One plays doesn’t equal championship; Lebron couldn’t do it for Cleveland, Dwight isn’t doing it for Orlando. Those are transcedent talents – if they can’t do it, Rondo surely can’t for Boston. But can he be a piece? Absolutely. Rondo’s contract allows flexibility to add pieces with him.
Now, Paul Pierce making well over $16m next year and then $15m the year after that at the ripe old age of 36, hurts that flexibility. But that’s another discussion for another thread.
You just got Rondo'd
by RJ87 on Mar 6, 2012 4:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Need to do a research on how players in rondos
Caliber (counting in his inconsistency if you want) is paid.
by Karasu on Mar 6, 2012 3:00 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Garbage
That’s what most of this is. Is Rondo High Maintenance? Probably. Is KG high maintenance? Guaranteed! Is PP? NO Doubt!! is Kobe Bryant? Rhetorical! Is DH or CP3 or Deron Williams? Most asurredly. Was Dennis Rodman? how about Michael or Scott Pippen? I can go on and on.
Every Superstar and Star is a maintenance issue. So let’s take that out of play. Does the guy produce? That is the bottom line. And the answer is YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! In the 2008 both Danny and Doc stated that the best player on the floor for 2 games was Rondo and there were at least 5 future Hall of Famers in that series in their prime or close to it. Rondo is a great PG. Is he better than CP3? Probably not, but heads up he’ll bust his butt to proved that he is. And heads up he might be. Yes he’s not a great shooter. And his free throw shooting is not great either. But his impact on a game can be Birdlike!! That is the bottom line.
So, if we ever decide to trade him, our return need to be very, very good. Not one that is limited because the other GM says to Danny that Rondo is too high maintenance. If Danny hears that he should hang up the phone immediately. End of that deal!!!!
I think he means the rumors...
As I read I was of the same basic feeling as the previous poster. Every superstar is a prima Donna and causes issues, look at Kobe and his run in with the law ? Hello. It’s a fact that they all are like this. Your article is good and I enjoyed it because new thoughts and perspectives are always welcome and useful.
To posters: Rondo’s contract is great for a star. That is what he is regardless of what you want to admit to. Is he a superstar? (ie James wade Kobe Howard). Obviously not – not right now anyways. Could he be ? HELL yes, he has time to still develope. But for now he is a star and If you pair him with a superstar, you’ve got a combination for success. Rondo can fit pretty much any team and play style. He does NOT need to be our superstar and I don’t think Ainge intends on making Rondo that (hence why Ainge is chasing the likes of Howard or others in FA this summer).
by RR_The_Future on Mar 6, 2012 12:22 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I was going to
troll you on Twitter to let you know I enjoyed the article, but I took the high-ish road. Now I’ll do both. I ENJOYED THIS PIECE, BRENDAN! No, really. Good work.
I try my best to know what I am talking about. Follow me on Twitter - @JoshZavadil
i just noticed i'm not following you...
….i definitely was….twitter is the worst.
But seriously thanks!!!
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 12:06 AM EST up reply actions
This "head case" stuff is dumb
First of all, I agree Rondo seems down to earth.
On the court I don’t mind that he’s competitive at all. Name one great player that isn’t competitive… A few times he didn’t channel the energy in the right way but please… Big deal. Some of these rumors are absolutely ridiculous.
All the 3rd-party long distance psycho-analysis of a player by people who don't know him
based on tenuous interpretations of a few comments by those who do and of course, the ever present completely anonymous comments by folks who probably don’t even really exist is starting to get kinda boring.
Even in this article, where you mostly dismiss the relevance of ‘personality quirks’ among all the various pro players, you inadvertently use statements like “I’m sure Rondo’s personality issues …” in a manner that assumes that his ‘personality issues’ are an accepted fact, proven and illustrated with crystal clarity. But they are not. They are simply assumed by a series of chain-dependent ‘reports’ that have never presented anything concrete.
Note that I can’t really blame Brendan for that – people just repeat stuff stated by other people until it becomes ‘truth’ whether it is or not.
For all I know, Rondo DOES have ‘personality issues’. But I have yet to see any real evidence of it.
It is ridiculous that people will latch onto tenuous statements like Doc’s passing remark (said with a smile), " a good and a bad thing" about how smart Rondo is and read all kinds of … stuff … into it that Doc did not say. How anonymous, unsupported claims of dissonance and strife are given so much credence. Yet all the large body of explicit, positive, supporting comments by teammates, coaches & gm are routinely and cynically dismissed.
Gawd I would hate to be a celebrity of any kind. To have to put up with being rendered as stereotyped caricature by would-be pop-psychologists who blurt out diagnosis of patients they have never met.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I think you're giving everyone too much credit.
That “smile” your alluding to seemed out of exasperation and appeared to be the same one a tired new parent puts on when they are asked “how the baby is doing”. And the “large body” of comments is hard to really give credit to, if you consider how much they are potentially hiding. Of course, nothing could be hiding at all, and this article is all for naught. But personally, I don’t think that’s the case, otherwise I wouldn’t have went through all this trouble.
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 12:17 AM EST up reply actions
So basically, even though you admit you have no basis for knowing anything of substance here about what Rondo and his relationships with his team really are like
you insist on preferring the more cynical, intriguing, colorful, read-behind-the-lines view of things as fostered by rumor and speculation. Why? Because it makes for a more interesting story?
You think it is more credible to accuse everyone who actually is directly involved with Rondo of ‘hiding’? That they are all a bunch of liars?
I’m sorry, but I just have no respect for that view. It is a lazy, convenient mode – to arbitrarily decide people are lying if what they say doesn’t fit the story you want to tell.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
It kind of sounds like you'd refuse to believe any slander against Rondo's name.
“Make no mistake; Rondo is high maintenance — “a personality challenge,” as it was put to me last week. He can be inscrutable and stubborn, and he has definite ideas about how to best utilize his and his teammates’ skills." — David Aldridge, NBA.com
“The Celtics find Rondo’s personality to be too high-maintenance and his clashes with coach Doc Rivers remain an off-court distraction, sources told Broussard, and the front office is now actively pitching him to other teams. With the Celtics realizing they are no longer title contenders, they don’t believe his point guard prowess is worth the headaches Rondo brings, sources say. And they do not want to build around him.” — ESPN
Information is all out there. Whether you choose to believe it or not is your choice. The ESPN one is from “sources”, but the Aldridge one comes from people he interviewed, and basically verifies Rondo’s personality thing.
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 7:50 AM EST up reply actions
i tend to agree
where there’s such a huge amount of smoke, there’s usually fire.
That said, as a celtics/uk fan, i love Rondo and hope we don’t trade him. But he’s been giving coahes headaches since high school. I tend to think it IS worth it, as IMO, most of it comes from a desire to win basketball games
mmmmm—-“to arbitrarily decide people are lying if what they say doesn’t fit the story you want to tell”….that goes both ways.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions
Again - heresay BY PEOPLE WHO DON"T INTERACT WITH HIM
How hard is this point to understand?
That is not “information”. That is gossip repeated by gossipers. Even Aldridge’s is second hand, with no named sources. Further, it doesn’t even say anything that you couldn’t probably say about 99% of ALL people!
“Information” would be direct and explicit quotes by people who actually know Rondo. Who work with Rondo. Who compete with and against Rondo.
Here’s a tidbit: Sports Illustrated polled NBA players (You know, Rondo’s peers) on what players’ they would choose first to build a team around. They picked Rondo at #12.
Yeah, that sounds like a guy they don't want to work with.
Again – I have no idea if Rondo has ‘personality issues’ (whatever the heck that code-speak means). But there is zero tangible evidence so far that really supports that he’s anything but a competitive, intense young man.
This is nothing but free-for-all character smearing. Writing ‘stories of interest’ with no foundation at the expense of Rondo’s reputation.
The same crap was being spewed about Paul Pierce 7 years ago. Hell, the same crap was spewed about Bill Russell and Dennis Johnson (In Phoenix). It was wrong then and it is wrong now. In all these cases the rumors and mis-characterizations by media were completely off base in the end.
People have flaws. But they are complex and small fragments of a puzzle are not the whole picture and it is blatantly and purposely wrong to pretend you know what the picture is just because you picked up a bright colored fragment.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
it a diffrence of Facts and feelings
in my lifetime news has changed from Facts to feelings. They only have themselves to blame. More media= need for more stories. When a media outlet like ESPN or whichever Pimp that David Aldredge is working for needs some fluff. Espn/David go get their money by passing off feelings for Facts. Maybe I am old school but I believe Paul Peirce when he says that “Rondo makes us a contender”. I believe KG in saying that “Rondo is the best player on the team”. Maybe in 20 years when the big 3 write a book of their revival of Boston basketball. They’ll divulge how they really feel. Until then I take everything I read with a grain of salt and until I read x was traded AND passed his physical, I will not believe in anything the media feels.
Jeffrey M Melhorn
'Pretty well said.
I might use the term ‘gossip’ instead of ‘feelings’. But, yup.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
You sound like a parent who's kid is doing drugs, and everyone tells you the kid is doing drugs.
But you can’t believe them and put your hands over your years. I like Rondo a lot, and if you understood my article, you’d realize I don’t mind his behavior and that the Celtics are making a big deal out of nothing. But his behavior issues exist, and that’s something you’ll eventually come to terms with.
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
Or not...
because Rondo, like most folks, will probably change as he matures. I hope that happens before his playing days are over (assuming he sticks around).
Well of course.
Obviously have to hope for that.
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
It's nice of you to try slip in a personal attack with a patronizing backhand
but no, I’m simply sticking to facts here.
I did understand your article – and even referenced your purpose there way up above. But you still based it on an assertion that is not supported by anything substantial – and in so doing you are just propagating the same gossip that others have regurgitated. And most importantly I reject your assertion that everyone who directly knows and works with Rondo is lying.
Prove Doc and Danny and Paul and Kevin and Ray are lying in their many statements that support Rondo and refute these rumors. That’s your assertion, right? Prove it.
The ‘logic’ of believing that assertion and preferring a view supported entirely on either anonymous hearsay or tenuous re-interpretations of out-of-context quotes – that’s just amazing.
And to address your swipe at me as somehow being in denial – I’ve said repeatedly that I can perfectly well believe that Rondo may have some issues. I know lots of people with various ‘issues’. What I reject is the repeated assertion as fact something that has (so far) been provided no factual basis.
Until then, it is nothing but a character smear.
I guess I should not be surprised to be attacked personally. You probably feel defensive because this is coming off as pretty strong criticism of your article.
I don’t know how young you are, Brendan. But I’ve been around long enough to see this same crap pulled on multiple athletes over the years.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
VICIOUS PERSONAL ATTACK 50 POINTS FOR BRENDAN
There’s obviously no swaying you on a point many people have fully realized. Moving on.
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 6:38 PM EST up reply actions
Brendan, it's funny that you used the word.....
slander. Is he stubborn? Possibly. Is he disruptive? Doubtful. Is he unstable? No way. We are talking a PG who was the QB of the last championship and nearly of a second. That doesn’t sound like someone with a personality disorder to me. Were any of the people he interviewed filling positions on the Celtics, such as GM or coach? Or were they teammates who were complaining? Doubtful.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
And
Don’t you think this could be said about every star or superstar in EVERY Sport and not just Rondo. It’s just Rondo’s turn in the spotlight. I guarantee you they are all High Maintenance. They all want shots and to touch the ball, they want stats to use to get a better contract. Why is it that very few coaches, even successful one last more than 4-5 years with a team. It’s the players and trying to placate them. Example, Terry Francona, here’s a player coach, the team tuned him out and he got fired/quit whatever.
Another example, why does DH want to be traded. Two reasons, he doesn’t think they are a championship contender and Otis Smith has not discucces personnel issue with him. Why would management discuss personnel issues with a player, but it’s done in sports especially the NBA.
I repeat, athletes are all high maintenance and the higher they rank the more high maintenance they are. It’s their ENTITLEMENT. That is just a fact.
Hold on
Foul on the floor. There are concrete, established facts to back up the notion that Rondo has unusually severe emotional “issues.” How many NBA players have ever been tossed out of a game, and suspended for 2 more, for purposefully throwing a ball at high speed at an official? I’m not gonna bother to do that research for this debate, but I’m confident it’s a very tiny number. (And I’m also confident that whoever else has done this was also relatively unstable.)
And what about that well-reported episode of throwing a bottle at a TV during a team meeting? Not the mark of a stable personality.
And by Rondo’s own admission, the Perk trade caused him to lose his edge, his will to work. That’s a head-scratcher too. Is he THAT emotionally fragile? I mean, Perk wasn’t exactly shot at dawn.
And there’s my pet peeve regarding Rondo, and that’s that he decides when he wants to take whole games off, play like crap, do everything the coach has publicly said not to do. That bothers me the most because this kid is being paid millions of dollars to do a job. A great job, at that. So do the damn job, Rondo…. not when you feel like it, but every time you are called to do it. (And yes, I know it can be argued that he just has bad games from time to time, but I trust my eyes — which have seen him sleepwalk through games, refuse to drive or run the ball up the court, etc.)
I do not agree with everything in this article either, but the notion that there is nothing “concrete” pointing to personality issues with Rondo is a non-starter for me.
So Rondo tossed a ball at the referee, and now he's unstable? Seriously?
Could you overexagerrate a little more? You make it sound as if Rondo had an impromptu game of dodgeball with the ref. And I urge you to do research on how many players throw balls at refs – I’m certain its a lot more than you assume.
KG grabbed Bill Walker by the throat earlier this season – does a normal, well-adjusted person do that? Probably not and there’s a lot of other on-court antics by him that’s outrageous, but KG’s behavior gets dismissed as “passion for the game” or “intensity”. Give me a break. The anti-Rondo agenda by some around here is starting to get out of control. Fine, you don’t like him. That’s well and good, but apply the same pseudo-psychology to every player on this team. I’m pretty sure you’d find an alarmingly high number of “unstable” players on this roster.
You just got Rondo'd
by RJ87 on Mar 6, 2012 4:29 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Amen and amen.
I couldn’t agree more.I have read and watched comments from “I think we should trade him” now go all the way to he’s “unstable”. Opinions are like………. !!!!!! You just watched him have a game for the ages read Wilt and the Big O) and now he’s unstable. His GM, his coach, and his teammates all say he’s amazing. These are people who are around him each and every day. Then we have a group that call him high maintenance and unstable, but have never met or played basketball with him. UMMMMM, forgive me, but I am going with the group of Celtics!!!!!
I will also add........
I have seen comments about how he plays the game. People don’t like when he doesn’t run all out to get the ball upcourt quickly. That became him not following Doc’s orders. But, it is actually only because YOU think he should run. Well, guess what? I think KG should dominate the paint. For friggin sakes, he’s a 7-footer and atheletic. He should post up more and knock off the outside jumpers. IF Doc was unhappy with Rondo, he would pull him and put in AB.
I also
think things are probably blown out of proportion, and I want Rondo to be a C for life.
But you’re a UK fan. How can you not admit that Rondo has a history of causing minor headaches for coaches, and has at multiple times been accused of being a less-than-optimal teammate.
Again, I think this just stems from a competitive guy who wants to win, but let’s not pretend that every negative attribute must be fabricated
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Not fabricated..........
but I have yet to read a teammate complaining about Rondo. Yes, I am a UK fan. Minor headaches? I am quite sure PP and KG and Ray and ….. well, you get the idea, have all caused minor headaches. This just as described…… a smear campaign. SOURCES????
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
lol
“smear campaign” really?
I am starting to be embarrassed to be a celtics fan.
How about when he almost got kicked off his high school team for disagreeing with his coach? How about when Tubby and he continually and publicly butted heads?
How about when doc told him point blank that “your teammates hate playing with you”?
What about Garnett’s backhanded compliment about his effort? What about throwing a water bottle through a screen at practice?
AND I LOVE THE GUY! I’m not saying he’s a bad dude or a head case.
I don’t think he is.
But it seems evident that he has some quirks that make him an “interesting” case.
LOL @ SMear campaign. come off it.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:23 AM EST up reply actions
Why do you never hear
what the source is? It is easy to say something when you don’t have to back it up.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
are you covering
your ears and screaming “nonononono” ?
Tubby Smith, Doug Bibby, Doc Rivers are all firsthand sources! And to assume that every second-hand account is completely fabricated is just as silly as taking it all as gospel
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions
and maybe you can research some quotes
where these guys say Rondo has issues. HE IS NOT PERFECT. I have no problem admitting he has a strong personality. He has to in order to run a team with HOFers on it and him as the QB. I have yet to read a direct quote from Celtic management or coaching staff or teammate that says they have issues with Rondo.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 10:30 AM EST up reply actions
all 3 sources
have direct quotes. I provided one from doc in my original post.
Again, I love Rondo and don’t want to trade him. But I am also trying to see a clear accurate picture of him painted. Not a biased one created by slander or can-do-no-wrong attitutde
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
Who here has proposed or argued a "can-do-no-wrong" picture?
That is a straw man. Burn it down.
You will never get a clear and accurate picture of anybody through news media. You can be personal friends or co-workers with someone and barely scratch the surface of who they are.
People need to stop thinking they can really know these people.
They are entertainers paid to play basketball for us.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I tend to agree with that
But quite frankly, personality and attitude impact the way a team plays basketball.
So it is only logical that fans will take information and speculation to try to form an opinion of a player, and that makes perfect sense.
Will it be 100% accurate? Of course not. We can only use our logic and the data presented to us to come to our inclusion. Obviously, we will have to sift through misleading or false data, but I am confident in my ability to draw conclusions.
It almost seems silly to discuss this, as I am a huge Rondo fan and don’t think he’s a terrible guy or anything.
But quite frankly, every time someone has said something negative about Rondo’s intangibles, you or CelticsUKFan have attempted to shoot it down as false or having no basis.
I don’t agree with the second part. There is no straw man there. If you want to get into another circular discussion on fact, logical fallacies, and opinions on message boards, we can, but it seems counter-productive.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I prefer to hear it from
someone who plays on his team, coaches him, or is the GM. Not from “sources”. We do agree he is unique. I liked him at UK, like him more now. I don’t intend to shoot down any facts that are based on actual quotes that come from the Celtics, but IMO, the ones from ESPN, yahoo sports, etc are simply opinions.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
Not sure what you are referring to as "the second part".
My reference to a straw man is in YOUR statement:
“Not a biased one created by slander or can-do-no-wrong attitutde”
The second half of that dichotomy implies that someone is arguing that Rondo “can-do-no-wrong”.
No one is arguing that. Thus it is a straw man.
You are also misrepresenting when you say:
But quite frankly, every time someone has said something negative about Rondo’s intangibles, you or CelticsUKFan have attempted to shoot it down as false or having no basis.
What we have pointed out is that no one has yet to provide direct evidence of basis. That pretty much everything presented has been either a tenuous and questionable interpretation of a snippet of an actual quote or anonymous heresay.
And it is not just myself and CelticsUKFan who have pointed this out.
Please excuse others if they have no confidence in your ability to draw conclusions based on the ‘data’ that has been presented on Rondo’s “character” or relationships with others. Its not personal – you are almost certainly no better or worse than anyone else at drawing conclusions on such “data”.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
lol
you are ridiculous. so you choose to look at each player as a blank slate and refuse to draw any conclusions based on what you see and here.
Therefore, you are not aware of any basketball character issues with Allen Iverson, Rasheed Wallace, Vin Baker.
You choose to believe that they are all perfect citizens, because you have not personally met them.
Adolph Hitler must have been an awesome dude originally, bc nobody from his inner circle came out against him early on. All you really had was speculation from people who didn’t
“know” what was going on.
There’s your straw man.
I already qualified a loooooong time ago. Everything I say is obviously opinion. I’m not trying to have legal conversations about the nature of argument or burden of proof.
I already agreed that this all speculation. SO what?
I’ll say it again. Based on what I’ve heard and seen through watching almost every single one of his games since college, no matter how much the sources offend you, I have an opinion on what type of ball player Rondo is.
And you can disagree it and use quotation marks and scoff all you like, and that’s fine. Trust me, I know that I’m no expert or insider.
Rondo is my favorite player and I want him to be a Celtic. But it is my opinion that he seems like he’s a little bit of prickly dude, towards coaches and teammates.
And people can disagree. But don’t act like I’m foolish to draw that conclusion.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Please don't assert what I think.
and thanks for the personal attacks!
And yeah, pretty much the first four paragraphs of your post there are all straw man fiction pulled out of … somewhere.
I won’t act like you are foolish to have an opinion. I am simply pointing out that you are wrong when you state it as fact without support.
Stating an opinion that derides someone’s mental state without supporting it is insulting and slanderous. Don’t pretend that it isn’t just because it is your speculative ‘opinion’.
To act as if one knows these players intimately enough to even offer such strong character judgments – well, sure it’s one’s right to express an opinion. But it looks arrogant and presumptive (I avoided using the word ‘foolish’ there).
Of course, that’s all too easy to do behind the anonymity of the internet.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
wow,
i thought you enjoyed our little “debates”. I thought it was all in good fun, man. no hard feelings, and certainly nothing personal.
But as long as we are straw-manning,
I never said my opinion was fact. Everything I ever said or will say is an opinion.
But i wouldn’t bother bs-ing with you if i didn’t enjoy what you typed.
hugs?
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
Until I break bread with someone
I have no idea if they are unstable. Unless they are pointing a gun at me. Maybe he is moody or stubborn. We all have our issues. But unstable? Can’t say because I don’t know the guy. But I really like the way he plays and think he should not be traded.
by JPV on Mar 6, 2012 11:28 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
"I’m pretty sure you’d find an alarmingly high number of "unstable" players on this roster."
That’s kind of my whole point…
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 7:44 AM EST up reply actions
Brendan, I actually
enjoyed this article. But Rondo fans have read over and over, all the negative things being written. Don’t take it wrong that fans come out in support of him.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I see what you're saying...
…and thanks for the compliment.
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
actually
i think JR99 gave 3 facts:
1) threw water bottle at tv
2) own admission of perk trade affecting him
3) threw ball at referee
He does too seem a bit unstable, but i wouldnt be putting him on d. west level…..not yet
Some years back, Paul Pierce got ejected
took off his shirt and threw it in a fit.
That cost his team.
People wrote all the same sort of speculative smears about his character back then as they are about Rondo now.
Now he is lauded as ‘The Captain’ – a leader.
Maybe the Truth is that people are far more than just these snippets of information and it is silly to try to make grand summations of their character based on them.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I love PP also
but all evidence pointed to him being somewhat immature and petulant in his youth as well.
I never wanted to trade him either, but I didn’t write off any questions about his character simply because he was young, opinionated, and didn’t always come off as a saint.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
If you didn't "right them off" - then what did you do with them?
What, literally, are we doing with all these “questions about character”?
The idea of “sainthood” should not be within a million miles of this discussion.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Urg ... spelling brain fart. "right" --> "write"
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
i got you
i fall victim to the occasional homophone when typing fast, stream-of-conscious celtics talk
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
lol
“stream of consciousness”
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
I considered them
as well as other information and opinions about him, good and bad, and used common sense and intuition to reach a conclusion based on all information available to me.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
I guess we just disagree
i AM a huge Rondo fan! I see a PG who is capable of doing things that other PGs can’t. People like to say his assists are skewed. The game you saw against the Knicks was greatness……… PERIOD! Can he bring that every night? Nope. Is he a pure PG who thinks pass first because that’s what PGs do? YES. He is not a SG playing the point like Rose and Westbrook who think score first.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 10:49 AM EST up reply actions
He has a very unique skill set
and is actually tied or close to tied with Ray in shooting % behind our bigs at about 47%, well ahead of PP at 42%. He is also at or very near the top in leading all PGs in rebounding. Not bad in my book.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
i agree
with both of those paragraphs you wrote whole-heartedly. i love Rondo.
we don’t disagree on that.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I am a bit
defensive when it comes to Rondo. He has the public support of Ainge, Doc, Cousey, Magic, and many others. But I read so many negative things here from fans. I admit he isn’t perfect, but I think he’s perfect for the Celtics. I have yet to see, hear, or read a comment from teammates, coaches, or management that say he is an issue. Until I do, I am solidly in Rondo’s corner. He has done sooo much for this team and is a key part in Banner # 17. He will also be a key part in Banner #18.
by CelticsUKfan on Mar 6, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I hear you
and for the record, I am firmly in his corner as well, and want to see him a c for life. I also loved him at UK.
I just think that he is stubborn and sometimes difficult to get along with on the basketball court, and that those are negative attributes, although they may be a by-product of his competitiveness.
And whatever negative MAY exist is far out-weighed by his performance.
IMO.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
he is stubborn and sometimes difficult to get along with on the basketball court
I would bet MONEY this sentence was used at least once for Micheal Jordan. Course the word mean as a rattlesnake could be thrown in there as well.Of course I am talking about on the court
Jeffrey M Melhorn
right
Michael Jordan, IMO, was prickly and difficult to get along with, bc of competitiveness.
However, and I’m sure I’ll get killed for this, while Rondo is my favorite, I think that, overall, Jordan was slightly better
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
What was your conclusion at the time?
Did you conclude that you actually knew enough about him to judge his character?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
misleading question
“judge his character”…
i can’t “judge” anybody, nor do i want to. i just try to draw conclusions and understand someone the best i can.
Early on in PP’s career, i used all of the info available to me, and more importantly, watching basketball games, to conclude that maybe he was a little immature at the time, and also somewhat petulant. then he grew into what he is today.
And I still loved him at the time. I just used info, good and bad, to paint as clear a picture as I could in my head…
And maybe I was completely wrong! At least I’m allowing for that…
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
"to conclude that maybe he was a little immature at the time, and also somewhat petulant"
is a statement loaded with character judgments. So, the answer would apparently be “yes”.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
ok fine
I am also guilty of forming an opinion on Paul Pierce without having met him.
"Chemistry is something that you don't just throw in a frying pan and mix it up with another something and throw something on top of that and then fry it up and put in a tortilla and put it in microwave, heat it up, give it to you and expect it to taste good. You know? If y'all don't know what I'm talking about then you can't cook and this doesn't concern you."
by KGHurtYourFeelings on Mar 6, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
but could it also be that PP actually did grow up and that it would be reasonable to label him “unstable”. Although, im not sure if PP had repeated incidents like that (did he? i dont know…as i did not follow those kinds of things during those years)
Whe Paul Pierce was stabbed
there were media meatheads (I’m talking to YOU, WEEI) blatantly criticizing him for being in the nightclub and being too ‘gangsta’.
He was stabbed – but it was because of a ‘character flaw’.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Ray Allen once did this

I absolutely LOVE Ray – he’s one of my all time favs.
NOBODY is perfect.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Agreed. This is largely another Rondo alibi article.
The guy is a special talent – who is woefully immature and petulant. He’s never, ever going to realize his potential until he grows up.
So, when he DOES realize his potential
it will be because he finally, “grew up” … according to your standards?
How well do you know Rondo?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Well, he 'realized his potential', didn't he?
LOL
Maybe he “grew up” according to some other standards?
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Celtics benefit now and in the future by keeping Rondo...
For this year, the big 3, especially Ray Ray and KG thrive on offense from Rondos style and passing. With most other point guards, including Bradley, Ray and KG would somewhat suffer on offense.
For the future, think Steve Nash, with even more quickness and audacity, feeding some more younger, athletic leapers on the break, like on the D’Antoni Suns only with defense.. He should also, finally appreciate the value of having a dependable outside shot, which he is finally trying to develop and have confidence in.
Imagine he puts his claimed brilliance into developing a three-pointer in the off season. Why not? Many of the top older point guards really developed the 3 later in their careers. I think he might find someone nearby (career 3-point leader) to teach him a few things about 3 pointers if he found the motivation. Then he would really become a complete player and a true superstar.
"Smartest player I've ever coached"
That is an important statement. Why would you trade away brains when IT is so short in the NBA? Larry Bird also had incredible basketball brains even though his articulation was pure French Lick. Magic Johnson, same thing
When I read here people wanting us to do whatever it takes to get Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo I think brains are in short supply on blogs too.
We do not want a team of Chad Ochocincos who don’t have the brains to play with our QB’s game and Rondo is our QB. Jeff Greene looks smart. He just had terrible initial pressure on arrival. He’ll be a fine Rondo piece. Brandon Bass and Mikael Pietrus should be kept on
I am all for building around Rondo because it will be an uptempo, smart team. Too bad we can’t roll Father Time back because KG would be perfect. The Celtics defense requires brains when it works best.
Brains
You mentioned the smarts of Bird and Magic, and you are correct. The difference is the era. People were willing to admit they were a step ahead and would defer to them. They spoke and people listened. These days it seems someone like Rondo speaks and it is who the hell are you. My contract is twice as big as yours.
Good article
In a league full of egomaniacs and the media who so gladly ride the jockstraps of those egomaniacs, Rondo doesn’t even crack the top ten. If Lebron had had Rondo’s Sunday game, the media would have declared him a God.
Assists rarely make the highlight reel. Pressuring the ball either. But Celtics fans need to make sure we’re basing our desire to have Rondo traded not by what the slam dunk happy media thinks would be best for this team.
And it wasn’t even Rondo’s media friendly big time stats that made it Rondo’s best game. It was the fact that he made every single one of his teammates better than they would have been without him. At 6’1, he mopped up the boards for his frequently deficient bigs. He created passing lanes where there were none. He dominated the game but somehow his main scorer Pierce still put up big numbers. It wasn’t the usual superstar NBA game where the biggest superstar on the floor steals shots from his teammates. Rondo had a true superstar game, that is if you believe superstars should make their teammates better rather than just have their teammates exist to prop up their own stats.
Like Rondo, we need to make sure we’re using our basketball IQ, rather than judging him on some media coverage about his attitude and temperament.
Trading him would be like trying to run your car without gas. You might have a damn good car but you aren’t going anywhere without the fuel.
Leader? No. Not yet anyway. But on this team he doesn’t need to be. But for this fan, Rondo has proven he deserves to wear the uniform. What else does he have to do to end the talk once and for all?
Only named an All-Star as an alternate--
so I’d call him a star but definitely not a superstar.
That was largely because he missed a bunch of games.
That obviously impacts voting and there was no way it would have looked right for the coaches to pick him first after he missed so many first-half games. At the time the initial selections were made he’d missed a significant fraction of the season to that point. He then got in several good games before they picked him as an alternate.
So I wouldn’t read too much into his selection as an alternate.
Though I am not ready to call him a ‘superstar’ either – I’m not even sure we’d agree on how to define that.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
That's a fair definition.
I wonder if someone like Lebron missed 1/3 of the games up to the voting, and his team was sorta foundering around .500 whether he would need the coaches to get in? Probably not.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
So is Pierce not a "superstar"
I’m pretty sure most here would assign Pierce the “superstar” label (at least when he was in his prime), yet Pierce has never once been voted as an all star starter
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Good point.
Yet everyone (including a ton of pissed off Knicks fans on sb nation after the last game) routinely refers to him as “future hall of famer”.
Odd that.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
I'm less concerned with Rondo's emotional "issues"
and more concerned that after a half dozen NBA seasons, he still doesn’t know if the ball is going to go through the hook when he hurls it up there.
Layup, jumper or free throw…is a crap shoot with Rondo. Rondo needs to hire the guy who trained Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose to shoot. I’ve got his number if you want it, Rajon.
I do think Rondo's personality--in a league that now depends on star players being able to draw other star players to their team--
is an issue to the C’s, but more important than that are the ways the holes in Rondo’s game come into play, especially toward the end of games.
Still larger than that is that they’re not going to give him away, only trade if they can get star value that they perceive more fundamental to building a winning team.
The DJ comparison is apt IMO.
ROndo's performance on Sunday was different
than the games before the all star break where he put up big numbers but didn’t involve his team mates. On Sunday he played a superlative all around game and the C’s needed every one of his assists, rebounds and points to win. The BIG issue ( and maybe the only real legitimate issue) with Rondo is his consistency. When you see a game like SUnday you ask yourself " where’s that been?". No one can play like that everynight but there has to be something that’s between that game and the zero points no shots game. All of that is on Rondo and no one else. Either he steps up and becomes the leader that he wants to be or he continues to do it on his terms and throws his team mates under the bus when things don’t go well
How many debates on Rondo lately?
Did a Celtics player ever create so much controversy? Anyway, great piece Brendan, the DeShawn Stevenson’s reference really made me laugh.
39573095723904572934
I’m getting tired of all the rumors and want something concrete too, but unfortunately it’s the biggest story line. And thanks!
by Brendan O'Hare on Mar 6, 2012 6:41 PM EST up reply actions
Hey if Doc can't get along with Rondo
Trade Doc…
Want to do the Moneyball thing…. Take Rondo’s stats and divide by his salary. No one else even close.
Celtic Chat Handle: Bird
Misleading
Who’s saying Doc can’t get along with Rondo. He says he’s the smartest player he’s coached. He’s said he needs to simplify things if Rondo is unable to play. He not only let’s Rondo call plays, he almost insists upon it while the game is in action. Just because they may have disagreements doesn’t mean they don’t get along.
Also, Doc, as a former pg, and a good one, is hardest on his pg’s, especially if he sees great potential in them. Not sure Rondo would be the player he is today if not for the support of Doc, Danny and his teammates.
Young players who care about becoming good players have said that the time to worry with Doc is when he’s NOT yelling at you.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
Wish Writer Would Have Written All That Doc Said
In Doc’s remarks about Rondo he said more than what is printed in this article. He said he’s had arguments with other players as well. He also said something to the affect that once the argument is over, it’s over. In other words Doc doesn’t make a big deal of this, but it seems like this is pick on Rondo month by people who don’t really know.
When Doc was hired as coach, before he even coached a game he said he was going to have arguments with players. He also said the important thing is once the argument is over that they shake hands and that’s it. Does anyone remember the verbal heated arguments he had with Pierce on the bench during a game. This happened in Doc’s first year. Pierce also said that that argument was nothing compared to other private ones. Look at their relationship now.
Players argue with coaches. Doc did it as a player. Doc doesn’t discourage it, he almost embraces it. And no one is traded or put in a dog house because they have an argument about something.
The Celtics are a close team. Often they jokingly say bad things about teammates. In older days Kevin McHale was callled the “black hole” by his teammates, meaning once he gets the ball he never passes it out. This, out of context sounds bad. Actually, once Kev got the ball his teammates wanted him to shoot it.
Rondo has never publicly come out and asked to be traded, traded to a specific team, and he’s never said anything negative about anyone in the Celtic organization or anyone else for that matter. Rondo seems to be one who is singled out because he is human. He also has a very dry sense of humor and when he answers a question you never know if he’s serious or not. This writer needs to get more and accurate info before making statements. He should also include the entire interview and not cherry pick a few words. He should also appreciate Doc’s frankness.
I don’t know about the other players he wrote about and don’t care. I do care what he says about Rondo because he’s a Celtic and I’m a Celtic fan. There has only been one Celtic player I have not liked in a personal way and that was Mark Blount.
"I don't come to play, I come to WIN"--Larry Bird
"Criminally Negligent Officiating"--Tommy Heinsohn
by TrueGreen on Mar 6, 2012 9:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
broad brush
is there a higher percentage of egomaniacs in the nba than in the general population? probably. but this concept that all nba players are headcases to one degree or another is, i think, a negative stereotype along the lines of “it’s a league full of thugs”. there are plenty of nba players who, at least to a fan watching, seem to be well-adjusted. look at a guy like steve nash or our very own ray allen, for examples from the ranks of “stars”. i’m sure we could come up with a lot more examples from the role players. i think it’s unhelpful to stereotype like this. if we’re talking about rondo, let’s talk about him, and not try to dismiss his behavior with these broad strokes that cast all players as problem-children.
as for rondo, he clearly has a mercurial personality, as some have called it. but let’s be honest, he doesn’t have a criminal record or a negative reputation off the court. his teammates may have trouble with him sometimes, but they clearly respect him. do we observe lack of effort sometimes? sure. but let’s keep it in perspective. as has been pointed out, he’s very smart, and very gifted, and that’s a rare combination. i hope the celtics hold on to him, because i think he makes other players better by helping them get into the right positions to succeed, and i think there are a lot of players who would be happy to team up with him.
mmmmm made a very good comparison of rondo to dennis johnson. dj was one of the greatest gamers i ever saw way before he was even on the c’s. in phoenix, i think he was called a “cancer” and he would have absolutely bad shooting and/or lazy games. but when the chips were on the line—wow. well, in that respect rondo is like dj—keep him and make the adjustments and don’t take any crap from him- and don’t hold any grudges. accept him for who he is and you will be rewarded.
I think you still have a bit of NHL trade deadline stuck in your beautiful mind ;-)
But a really good article. Nicely done.
Quoth the raven, "What a shine!"
Some people think that everything written by the press is made up or exaggerated
They are wrong, but to each his own. I have read enough quotes and seen enough of Rondo to know he is still an immature “kid” who needs to grow up. As for his abilities on the court, he is one of the best at his position. If his mental maturity ever matches his physical abilities he could become one of the best ever at his position.
"I have read enough quotes and seen enough of Rondo to know he is still an immature "kid" who needs to grow up."
You “know” this? About someone you’ve never met or had a conversation with? Have you been within talking distance of Rondo? Do you know anybody who knows him personally?
If his mental maturity ever matches his physical abilities he could become one of the best ever at his position.
And … when will you know that his “mental maturity ever matches his physical abilities”? Oh – according to you that will be accompanied by his becoming “one of the best ever at his position”. How will we test your prediction if Rondo just becomes ‘very good’ or what if his play degrades? How could we verify that his “mental maturity” never reached … whatever standard you seem to be setting here? Heck – even if he does become “one of the best ever” – how will we test to know that he isn’t some immature hot-headed jerk who happened to still be great at basketball?
“Some people think that everything written by the press is made up or exaggerated”
That’s a nice straw man – I’m sure it kept you warm while you burned it down.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
My question is...........
Where are all the trades? Not necessarily Celtics trades, but any trades at all. I haven’t heard of anyone being moved, not even a role player. Thoughts?
Probably an effect of the short season
more teams are still ‘on the cusp’ (I’d include the Celtics in that group) and waiting as long as they can to decide whether to sell or buy.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Well, if Rondo does indeed have a "prickly" personality
So did Larry, MJ, Kobe and a great many other great players. People who don’t like losing, and who refuse to accept anything other than greatness can often times comes across this way.
The only difference here is; the payers I referenced were all-time greats. They are given a different amount of latitude in this regard. It doesn’t make the personaltiy trait itself “bad”. It’s just perception.
Furthermore, has there ever been one direct quote by any of Rondo’s teammates stating they don’t like him? If not, than it’s just specualtion and gossip. I have no interest in nor respect for gossip.
" Hell yeah I'm trying to gain an advantage out here. If you can't handle it, get off the court."- Kevin Garnett
"Stats are for losers."- Rahim Morris (FORMERLY-Tampa Bay Buccaneers)
Another perspective
Sometimes it’s all a matter of perspective and that gets lost often when analyzing stories such as this.
mmmmm is correct that one one really knows how much of a problem Rondo is to his teammates, coaches or anyone else if he is even a problem at all.
It is possible that all the reports on Rondo are fabricated and something giant grew out of nothing. More often than not though as the old saying goes ‘when there is smoke there is fire’.
And it would be tough to go through life never believing something to be true without personally witnessing it. Using Rondo as an example, even quotes from Doc, KG or other teammates which there have been several can’t be taken as fact. Who is to say that Doc, KG, Danny or other teammates aren’t lying? Who is to say that their direct quotes could be misinterpreted?
David Aldridge, Wilbon, Jackie MacMullan or whatever other “insiders” or “experts” can definitely be wrong. By the same token they often come up with insights or stories that otherwise wouldn’t be known. Looking at it from another angle is other than those with direct knowledge by being in the room or on the court when something happens, these “insiders” have more information than 99% of people. They do have friends and sources throughout the league that none of us have.
And again it’s often about perception. It’s funny how some fans don’t want to believe how anything negative regarding Rondo or other players is true. Quite often those same individuals jump on a negative story about Kobe for example and use that to foster their dislike. When KG sucker punched Channing Frye or Ray hit Varejao there were many who excused those behaviors simply because they are fans of those players and the Celtics. However is that was Kobe, Lebron or someone else the reactions of ‘he is a dirty player’ ‘a horrible person’ ‘a punk who cheated on his wife’ and things of that nature are the typical response.
It is human nature to form opinions whether they are right or wrong. There are so few things that we witness personally so many of those opinions or self determined ‘facts’ have to be gleaned from other sources. Whether it’s hearing an account from a 2nd hand source, a person with intimate knowledge of the actions, someone with a much better chance of having the correct facts or whatever other options available – thoughts, ideas and conclusions are formed by all of us each day.
It would be impossible to get through life without believing things besides those that we personally witness…
This is a good post.
My point isn’t that there can be nothing negative to believe about Rondo. My main point is simply that people are complex and we are not in a position to build even fractional pictures of what their personalities are really like based on the tiny fragments that we get to see.
As I pointed out above, just as Rondo has a handful of public ‘incidents’ that reflect negatively on him, so too do Ray & Paul – and as you and others have pointed out, so does KG. If you dig, you can probably find such ‘incidents’ for almost every player in the NBA.
The fact is, if almost any of us were to work out on public display in such a highly competitive environment as these players do, the vast majority would eventually stumble – probably more than once. And it would be in public.
Acknowledging those negatives is fine. Pretending to know enough to build a sweeping character picture out of them – that’s rather presumptive.
Most all of us have ‘negative’ moments in our lives when we make mistakes and ‘misbehave’. But we get to do that in our private lives and generally have more control over other people’s perceptions of us.
To bring it back to Rondo – I see parallels going on with the way Pierce was slandered several years ago. I watched Dennis Johnson go through it when I was a teenager. You see it in other sports as well.
It’s one thing to say, “Well, from what little I know, I suspect Rondo might be a prickly guy to work with”. But hyperbolic assertions that the team can’t stand him and want to get rid of him because he’s a head case and such and such, or the veiled insinuations that maybe he has (psychological) “issues” – those things should require more support before spewing them out there.
And while it is certainly possible that Doc, Danny, his teammates & such are all collectively lying on Rondo’s behalf – if you are going to support your speculation about Rondo with that assertion, that’s a pretty heavy charge that should also require a little evidence.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
People have taken umbrage here over conclusions drawn re Rondo's personality
…arguing that we can’t draw conclusions like that without knowing the guy. Two points:
- The first is a BTW, kinda. Btw… we are constantly coming to conclusions about public personalities without knowing them personally. The argument that we should not doesn’t hold much water because it assumes a level of “judgment” which nobody here is claiming (and in that sense is a strawman argument). Let’s not assume we are debating idiots here. Nobody is claiming to know Rondo well enough to prescribe psychoactive meds for him. But let’s not argue that NO conclusions about his personality should be drawn by anyone who hasn’t met the guy, because in fact, the PROCESS of doing exactly that is written into our Constitution, ferkrissakes (like when we vote). It’s part of our society, and an activity in which EVERYONE in this country participates, all the time. There are very few exceptions to this process around the world… North Korea, maybe a couple other places here and there.
- But the key point is this: I dislike what I have seen from Rondo NOT because of any conclusions about his personality, but ONLY because of his inconsistent play. The most-recent Cavs game was my tipping point, and I could find no reasonable explanation for that terrible, somnolent effort OTHER than his emotional state (no injury, for example). The chicken (his performance) is laying the egg (conclusions about his state of mind) here.
I (along with all other fans) am paying his salary (sorta), and it’s a lot of money, so I expect him to at least TRY to play well every time. When he doesn’t, I don’t like it. I think that’s almost my job decription as a fan.
Put another way, if Rondo just played with at least a normal effort level every time (like KG, Ray, Pierce, etc.), then I wouldn’t give a fraction of a damn about his personality. It would be none of my business. Heck, I’d even say that if he has any “issues,” I hope he doesn’t solve them!
Bottom line, then… attempts at categorizing Rondo’s personality should be seen merely as efforts at explaining his inconsistent play. Folks arguing that Rondo has NO personality issues should be required to come up with some OTHER explanation(s) for his wildly divergent effort level. I mean really — compare his performance in the most-recent Cavs game to the most-recent Knicks game, and you’d be hard-pressed to accept that those two players are the same person.
“It’s not personal, Sonny. It’s strictly business.”
(Btw… arguments that Rondo is a great player are completely beside the point here. Of course he’s great, when he plays up to his potential. That’s not a point of contention at all.)
Again - I don't believe anyone is arguing that Rondo has NO personality issues.
I have argued that nobody is likely to be qualified to diagnose them over the internet!
I’ve offered possible explanations for divergent levels of play before.
The most likely reasons are going to be, “just basketball”. On a team like this, without a single dominant player or two – each game is going to play out very differently.
As I posted elsewhere, if you look at game-to-game performances, Rondo’s numbers don’t really fluctuate much more or less than Ray, Paul or KG’s. And for that matter, not much different from other top PGs.
I definitely would not dismiss people’s emotional or psychological state as having an effect on their play. That clearly affects people’s performance all the time. People have bad days. I just don’t see any reason to believe that Rondo is more or less susceptible to that than anyone else. Almost certainly he’s had games where he was not in a mental state conducive to high performance. That’s probably true of every player in the game at some point. But I think, from looking at his performances that most of the time he doesn’t have a ‘great game’ it’s simply been a match up issue.
I agree that that’s a fair question to ask though. The trick is to try to test it. Can you look at his ‘bad’ games and say definitively – “That was because he was mentally not in it!” and not – oh, that was the game PP was feeling it and took every shot or that was the game the whole team stunk or whatever? And let’s say you identify some traits you observe during some of the bad games that lead you to believe the problem is his mental state (Not trying. Looks lazy/sad/angry/bored/whatever.). You then have to go an make sure he hasn’t exhibited the same traits in any of his ‘good’ games.
And finally, to make sure you aren’t holding Rondo to some double standard – you have to go and apply the same ‘analysis’ to everybody else for their ‘bad’ vs ‘good’ days!
It all gets pretty iffy. Way too much work. So much easier to just be angry at him for not being great all the time.
NBA Officiating - Corrupt? Incompetent? Which is worse? Does it matter? It sucks.
Maybe I was influenced by the suspension (and its cause) and all the chatter. I went over that Cavs game pretty carefully, and rightly concluded that Rondo put virtually NO effort in that game. But… for all we know, he could have had a cold or something. Or a sleepless night. So yeah, I can see how there is no real evidence that he just took the night off.
Part of my conclusion was based on his prior history of very poor effort from time to time. But since that Cavs game, RR’s had nothing but good outings (defined as reasonable effort). If this continues, then all this probably won’t matter in the playoffs, for which he has always stepped up.



































